Proposition 8

16 10 2008

 

 

 

Vote NO!

Vote NO!

 

I follow Bamboo Nation for a lot things, 24 updates, the US election coverage (much better than The Times can provide – bleeding hearts, pah!), weighing Pork Chop, hot men posts etc. It all comes over fresh from the States. However, more seriously, or nearly as serious as the upcoming election, is Proposition 8. If you are reading this in the States, and you’re based in California, or know people who live in California, you must, must, urge them to seriously consider their position and vote NO on Prop 8. 

Talking about same-sex relationships, a friend once said to me ‘being in love is a human right’, and I think marriage goes that same way too. Stop thinking of marriage as a fuddy duddy institution, man with woman only. This idea is grounded in religion, and adopted by those who, religious or not, are homophobic. Maybe marriage isn’t a path for you, I don’t really like the tradition of it, everyone has a personal path they want to choose; but should people want to marry, the option should be available to everyone. 

 

The world is NOT going to implode, or the population die out, if gays, lesbians, transpeople get married. VOTE NO!

Advertisements

Actions

Information

11 responses

16 10 2008
Prince Gomolvilas

As we say here in America, oh SNAP! 🙂

16 10 2008
Peter Varvel

Oh, wow! Thanks for the support, all the way from across the pond!
I’ll be coming over fresh from the States, too, for a bit of a holiday in Ipswich next spring, with some of my best mates!
And yes, I do indeed still have a full head of hair, both downstairs and upstairs, LOL.
Yanker Wanker Pete in Los Angeles

16 10 2008
narrioch

Proposition 8 affects us all indirectly, all of us who have an interest in securing the progression and advancement of society, not its regression. So I’m happy to support my American cousins – real and virtual! Glad you have all your hair too…you’ll need it to keep you warm on your visit to Blighty!

18 10 2008
Paul

By taking a quick glance across the animal kingdom, it may be surprising to some to note that several species live in monogamous relationships. This phenomenon is observed in both the greater and lesser species. Surely there must be some benefit to living such a monogamous lifestyle or it would not exist. Such monogamous relationships, or marriages if you will, seem to naturally exist as if some underlying advantage could result. Evolutionary biology provides an answer to the quandary. The goal of every species is survival. The key to survival is passing on your “genes.” In order to accomplish this, a species must maximize its reproduction and maximize their offspring’s survival. Turns out, for some species the best way to accomplish this is by the father sticking around and helping the mother. Each gender of the species provides essentials of survival and thus a marriage is formed. Thus marriage can yield an evolutionary advantage. So, biologically speaking, much prior to governments issuing licenses, marriages existed to bear children and assure that genes proliferated. This type of marriage could only exist between a man and a woman. As languages evolved, English was born. The word marriage was used to define such relationships between one man and one woman. Surely, other relationships exist, many of which are full of love, but these would not be called marriage. Marriage has always described the coming together of a man and a woman to unite in love and initiate the bearing of children. Marriage is the gateway of the family. Biologically speaking, there is only one way to create offspring – this requires both a MALE and a FEMALE gamete. The implications of marriage go far beyond love. Defining marriage isn’t a task to be left to social experts, political activists or judges – The definition has been provided by nature itself and dates back to the beginning of life.

18 10 2008
Spencer

You want cold hard fact. You say prop 8 will not have an effect on teaching same sex marriage in school. I disagree completely with you on this issues. I would like you to look up the story of the Massachusetts father who was arrested because he would not leave his daughters school until he was informed when their school would be teaching about same sex marriage so he could remove his daughter when they taught this. The school said they did NOT have to inform him of when this would be taught because it was not topic that needed parental release. That is taking away the right of the parent to teach his child what he believes is right and granting that right to the government. You say this isn’t in proposition 8 but where does it stop. It wasn’t in Massachusetts law when passed but was ruled by the Massachusetts state that parents had no say. The Massachusetts Supreme Court would not hear the case, so therefore it stands as law. I will not stand by a Proposition that points in this directions. Furthermore I agree with you in that gay and lesbian individuals should have the same civil rights as married couples, but what I do not agree with is if gay marriage is passes then my religious leaders could get sued for not performing same sex weddings because it would be considered discrimination. This is violating their right of personal belief in their religion and the things their religion teaches. Supporters of no say “give non religious reasons” These are all non religious reasons of why I am a supporter to protecting traditional marriage.

Please go to http://www.protectmarriage.com

19 10 2008
Louise Larsen

Nicely said.

Kuddos to all our (Oh, okay, let’s face it. — all of Prince Gomolvilas’s) supportive “mates,” from across the pond, who’ve taken the time to share their thoughts regarding our statewide wrestling match for progress out here in the “Sunshine State.”

God only knows why some folks think voting for Prop 8 somehow “protects marriage.” As if. But, I guess these are the same people who still believe Obama is a terrorist and a muslim, even with Colin Powell’s endorsement.

Am I a happily married mother of two? Did I have a very traditional marriage ceremony? Was the ceremony embarrassingly sexist? — Yes, guilty as charged on all the above.

Would I like a wedding day “do over?” Now that I am more “enlightened” — Jesus God, yes. But, hey, that was then, this is now and he and I both survived that, too. My guests had a great time that day, anyway.

My point being that while a marriage license doesn’t cement the bond between a two married people, legal marriage does have a few benefits — including a moderate tax break among other little things all people should have a right to. If they want them.

Look, I’m not faithfully married out of tradition, I’m in a traditional marriage, because as crazy as it is, it’s worked for us. I have no idea how that happened. I don’t get it, either.

Bottom line is we’re still married because “for better or worse, we’re in it together.” That and the little fact that we both made a promise, (not to God, but to each other.) Look, I know, it’s so sickening sugary that even just talking about is making me ill, but it’s — that’s my reality. I don’t have any clue if this is right for anyone else, but if gay and lesbians want this, too — Then they should go for it.

What an irony, As left wing as my blog states I am, the silly truth is, I’m the “poster girl” of a traditional marriage and parenthood. And yet, my husband and I support a world that is respectful to alternative points of views, free from hatred and oppression, open to new ideas and, most of all, deeply committed to handing to the next generation a world we’ve done our very best to cherish and preserve.

I can only hope and pray that there are some people out there who can be reasoned with, still. It’s important not to lose faith in our fellow mankind.

In any event, it’s nice to know we have your far flung support on our local issues.

Like the bumper sticker says: “Everything’s connected.”

Have a pint on us, Mate!

— Louise on the left. (in theory)

19 10 2008
Jesse

Paul,

Yes, some animal species live in monogamous heterosexual relationships, but many more do not, and at least 300 vertebrate species have exhibited homosexual behavior – if your argument is that what happens in nature must form the basis of our social policies, then you’ll pretty much have to endorse everything under the sun.

Humankind is so removed from the rhythms and constraints of nature that making this evolutionary argument is clearly a stretch. There already exist many variations on the traditionalchild-rearing family which are nonetheless considered equal by the state – elderly or otherwise infertile people can marry one another, prison mates can marry their pen pals, single parents are allowed to raise children, and even virile straight couples are allowed to adopt rather than produce their own offspring. If the state’s only purpose in allowing marriage is to give people incentives to have children and raise them in a stable environment, there should be a lot of other groups besides gays who are denied that right. Why is the criterion of complimentary gender so important when there are so many unwanted children out there in need of adoption? If gays and lesbians can create more stable family units, how is it in the interest of our society to deny them that?

The answer, as Prince G. pointed out, is that being anti-gay marriage has nothing to do with marriage or its sociological function, and everything to do with xenophobia and discomfort.

19 10 2008
narrioch

Thanks Louise and Jesse. I see the sticky web of Prince G is spreading around, and so it should! I responded to those first two commentors in a later post as I’m happy to address the views of people who stand in opposition to my views. Louise – marriage is of course a personal choice, and I’m glad that on the issue of Prop 8 we are on the same side. But, hey, it’s cool that you’re a ‘poster girl’ – it is all about deciding on works best for you, you don’t sound sugary sweet at all. I know lots of people whose marriages have been great successes, and in a world where divorce rates are high, that is unusual. BUT – that is nothing to do with not being gay, or having had a religious marriage, it’s about hard work and love (more sugar!). Anyway I love a good wedding, but probably because I love a good knees up round the ‘old joanna’ as we say! Maybe i’ll get married, maybe I won’t – I won’t though be ‘given away’ or even become a Mrs, because although I would want to be part of a committed relationship, I don’t like the tradition of losing part of your old self when you get married (ie name, miss to mrs). Anyway, one day I might (should) be called Dr, and that will confuse everyone. Most people who don’t see me face to face will think I’m male…that’s still a common mistake with female Drs. I’m off topic, you are all awake in US, we are off to bed here in Europa! ta, though. I will have a pint, or maybe a Gin and Tonic.

20 10 2008
quin browne

prince is all about love of white man directors and the trials of my cat, sophie’s, hot lover, porkchop.

proposition 8 is about being closeminded, thinking yourself greater than god, and fear.

marriage is about love. period. and in having that love, you have the right to all legal rights of marriage.

i believe this will happen…. of course, i also believe peter and i will win the amazing race.

we’ll donate part of our winnings to supporting gay marriage nationwise.

20 10 2008
narrioch

Hi Quin – we love the trials of Porkchop over here, didn’t know he had a foxy lover! I think I’ve been unpicking where understandings about marriage, religion, same-sex couples etc come from, the definitions, the fears but at the heart of the Prop 8 issue are rights. When straight couples marry they immediately, by default, procure certain rights that gay couples can’t achieve. Unfair!

21 10 2008
Prince Gomolvilas

Some terrific responses here, folks. It’s also the first thread to deal with animal kingdom issues. Say what?! Good response, Jesse. Ha ha ha ha!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s




%d bloggers like this: